Awesome Day with the Wasatch Powderbird Guides
According to the Wasatch Powderbird Guides (WPG), many backcountry skiers appreciate their efforts at keeping the Wasatch backcountry safe by bombing it and enjoy the “sizzle” that a heliskiing operation brings to a mountain range. I’m not one of them. On Tuesday, WPG said they were going to be skiing in Mineral, Cardiff, Days, Silver, White Pine, Millcreek, Box, American Fork and Cascade – pretty much all of the central and southern Wasatch except the Alta parking lot. To nobody’s surprise, WPG decided to concentrate their efforts on Cardiff, which is a 60 second flight from their helipad and about 40 minutes skinning. We were one of four parties touring in the drainage and were treated to a thundering A-Star Symphony in B Flat Major for a solid three hours.
The WPG 2010/11 Operating Plan states “WPG will practice good backcountry ethics, including: (a) allowing ski mountaineers who arrive at a particular location before WPG an opportunity to ski first, and (b) avoiding, when practical, flying through passes and along ridges occupied by other backcountry users.” At least that is what they tell the Forest Service. The photo below shows the reality. We are standing on a ridgeline, in plain view, especially from above and not only does WPG land on top of the nearby peak, but then WPG guide Ryan Carlson brings his entire group straight over to us and proceeds to ski the slope we had just skinned up.
Ryan Carlson bringing his group of clients over to ski the slope we had just spent 40 minutes skinning up and were preparing to ski. Thanks dude.
Two minutes later, Mike “Ole” Olson lands on the same peak and does the exact same thing.
Mike "Ole" Olson leading his ducklings to the slope we had just spent 40 minutes skinning up.
It’s hard to blame the clients too much as they usually have no idea what is going on. We asked one of them who his guide was and he said “I don’t know the guys name.” Another client admitted “Yeah, this area is way too small for heliskiing. Sorry.”
WPG ski tracks going straight over a skin track with two tourers on it and another skin track in the background.
WPG's calling card, which they leave a good ten times a day on peaks, valleys and everywhere in between.
The Forest Service allows WPG to “trim brush and small trees to facilitate flight safety” which WPG interprets as cutting branches off of live nearby trees to use as staffs for their survey tape markers. It’s a mystery why they can’t use tomato stakes, scraps of lumber or something else. I guess it is just more fun, authentic and manly to cut up trees.
"Wasatch Powderbird Guides will fly in a manner that minimizes noise and visual impacts to backcountry skiers."
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Category: Commentary
Boy, am I glad I live and ski in Japan, where heli-ski operations are essentially non-existent. I guess the laws prohibiting landing atop national-park area has something to do with it.
WPG vs Black Diamond Athletes ultimate fighting match next fall to benefit the friends of the UAC
Why didn’t you put those razor-sharp whippets to their intended use! I’ve had the same thing happen on occassion by Whistler Heli. A good verbal tongue lashing in front of clients works nicely – a bunch of people who just forked out $800 each looking at the guide thinking “hey Manfred, I didn’t pay for this”.
on january 1st, i spent an hour in the banana days drainage while group after group flew fast and low above us to drop skiers on top.
luckily we got the shot first. i made sure to make very wide turns.
Sonsabitches. I have a friend that’s actually skiing with WPG right now. I emailed his phone with a link to this site and told him to show it to his guide. And I told him to ski guilt free, and try to have a good time at the expense of all backcountry travellers today. His ride today is either a comp or a write off…..hard to resist. Peace
I was with dug on Jan. 1. Wish it were an isolated incident.
Fuck the powderbirds.
It is not something new, they don’t respect nature when it is all about making money, the worst part is they don’t respect other people and your effort of skinning. Where I live if you pratice backcountry skiing and you are not going in ski resorts they consider a mad man
Hahahaha that last picture made my day! It really does personify the entire issue.
Apparently the wasatch should be considered wilderness area, that would keep them out. Lou Dawson wouldn’t like it, but for lung powered tourers, it’s a lengthy battle that could halt a heli op? Or plant an endangered animal there, snow leopards in the wasatch?
There’s no straight forward solution to this but keep going to comment periods and encourage every person and corporate sponsor you know to create a coalition to make the wasatch lung powered, a green solution.
Bombing and tree trimming is for in the resort.
They are buzzing the P.C. ridgeline now too. It was very annoying yesterday as they flew less than 50ft above the ridge @ W.Monitor. I even noticed they have listed P.C. ridgeline on their flight plan. I called and spoke with Ole about it and he claims there is no plan to start hitting the Monitors although it apears they are permitted to. He claimed it (P.C.R.) was listed for their return via Merdock Peak(???)Then he went into this B.S. about how they try to be thoughtful of backcountry skiers yadda yadda bla bla bla. YEA RIIIGGGHHHHT!
Wonder how long before they start hitting Monitors?
Why would anyone want to be a heli ski guide? Can’t imagine it pays hardly anything. Weird.
Right on, amazing what passes for acceptable in the pursuit of making bucks.
Early bird catches the turn?
I guess thats why I always see headlamps out ahead of me in the morning.
I tend to not be too annoyed by the helis around the Wasatch because of the insane number of people out and about anyway. I feel sorry for the suckers who shell out all that cash and feel like they have experienced something special. Kind of a joke to spend 40 seconds in a chopper and still be within sight of 7 ski resorts and 2 million people. At the same time I think it is unreasonable to expect wilderness conditions for those same reasons.
I tour the Wasatch because its hard to beat the terrain and the convenience, but for true backcountry peace their are so many other options nearby that its easy to go a day without seeing anyone.
Ya they were all over Cardiff Tuesday.
Based on your photos, it appears that WPG skiers do not carry (based on their lack of backpacks) any backcountry safety gear. I assume they are wearing beacons, but what good are they without shovels and probes? That seems to me, a rather irresponsible way to introduce skiers to the backcountry.
But then. I suppose so is flying them to the top of a not-that-difficult to reach hill, landing on top of other skiers and poaching their line. Whatever merits WPG may have (any?) fostering inter-user diplomacy in clearly not among them.
Move to Idaho. We have the place to ourselves.
These guys have actually done a flyby of some friends and myself in grizzly breaking track nearing the top and 10 min later dumped a load 20′ from where we were throwing our boards together and nabbed first trscks.
BULLSHIT!
I love to read your blog because of the great info, stories and laughs. You fucking rock Andrew.
I had the opportunity to visit the Wasatch recently (and met Andrew at the Greg Hill party). The mountains and ski touring opportunities are truly stunning. I have to say, the helicopters buzzing around really disrupted the ambiance. It seems a shame to have such accessible terrain to ski tourers become a playground for the mechanized ski industry. In Colorado, the approaches are much longer and areas with decent access can be highly contested. If I was in Salt Lake, I think I would be as pissed as Andrew is too.
we were on gobblers awhile back and the turd dispenser buzzed us twice while we were on the ridge, and i don’t know why. the weren’t skiing gobblers and only turned to look at alexander for a minute. In my opinion it seemed like they were buzzing us just for the hell of it. so I showed them the bird and my asshole. hope their clients liked it. unfortunately at this point it doesn’t seem like there is anyway to limit them anymore. nothing will change until they crash, cause a slide that buries someone, or i shoot them out of the sky with a souped up potato gun.
maybe snowbird will soon have a heliski-rollercoaster package available courtesy of dick bass. won’t that be fun.
Oh I thought this was about Valdez. Sorry
Well editorialized and documentation of a shitty little elite focused business. May everyone’s next tour be heli free and if not I hope you get a chance to negatively impact some snotty punks day on the hill just a little bit.
Bless the socialist French, where helicopter are banned other than for the rescue services and snowmobiles are legal only for the ski patrol only at resorts. And long may it stay that way.
Not that there is much snow to fight over at the moment, but in Vallee de Chamonix the only way to get a ride a heli is because you’re injured, dead or in the mountain rescue service.
Appearantly there were aspects of Mont Blanc that had actual moguls on them in the seventies before helicopters where banned in France for the reason that they disturb the environment and cause a great deal of noise in relation to the number of people who can benefit from this activity.
Getting dropped by a heli for skiing down is considered bad taste/cheating in ski mountaineering to begin with.
We were in Mineral that same day and I honestly thought we did something to piss them off because they were buzzing around us so incessantly. Turns out they really are just assholes.
What amazes me is that it doesn’t have to be this way. Here in the Sun Valley ID area we have one of the countries oldest heli operations (Sun Valley Heli Ski). AND we have a huge BC skiing community. Reading about WPG it’s striking to me how much we DON’T have the same problems. SVHS seems to fly every day where they say they’re flying. And I’ve been climbing up stuff, seen them coming and then seen them swing away and move elsewhere when they saw my party. They also seem willing to drop everything and head to the site of the last couple avalanche accidents we’ve had here. It’s not heli-skiing that’s bad (though I’d rather earn my turns any day). It’s that WPG are a bunch of total assholes. I’m a professional guide (fishing) and the worst thing in the world is to do something dumb, and have it pointed out in front of clients. If you have a close call w/WPG, voice your opinion to the clients LOUDLY.
I think you read it right Paddy…”it doesn’t have to be this way”. WPG has chosen to operate their business with a schoolyard bully mentality and the Forest Service who issues the permit refuses (daily) to enforce permit violations. WPG & USFS have over a 30 year history of heli-disrespect for the Wasatch. Strange way to run a business.
Like Andrew said, the WPG daily blog now basically just posts that they “may be” skiing throughout the entire range (which makes the whole blog requirement a joke). When first instated years ago, the blogs reported where they “will be” skiing. At least you could avoid them somewhat. Now you have a good chance of getting WPG’ed anywhere in the Wasatch.
Hey – thanks for taking a couple nice pictures of me. Maybe you could send me high-res copies to print and hang on my wall?
I was one of the “ducklings” or “dickheads” or whatever you want to call me, that day. And as I remember it, there was plenty of powder to go around, but rather than skiing it, you were scrawling snow-graffiti for the WPG guys to find and running from landing site to landing site to steal their wind-markers.
And when we did come close enough to you to speak, instead of letting us know where you wanted to ski, your friend let fly a string of profanity and some fake warnings designed to scare us into thinking our guides didn’t know what they were doing. Voicing your opinion in that way just made *you* seem like the assholes.
I had an awesome day on 16″ of new snow and a nice week in Utah – I’m sad for you that you were so bitter you couldn’t enjoy it.
It must be nice to cherry pick factoids to support your slanted view of the story. I was a client in the group you photographed above, and I’m happy to point out where you’ve overstated your case. But I suspect this is the sort of moderated blog where counterpoints never see the light of day.
Plenty of powder for everybody! I was in the WPG group that day and the least civil were the dos assholes touring, not our heli-guides. There are many of us in the group that also ski tour and we know where to find solitude when we want it.
I’m not sure what is worse — WPG showing out-of-staters low-angle powder in the Wasatch or a local giving up stashes that are well kept secrets in the backcountry. Hey douche – stop self-publishing books like that and let us all sleep better at night and tour better in the morning. We all know where the stashes are and where the WPG are not flying that day.
Regards,
Mike Lovetoski
I wonder if kite lines would bring down a chopper?
So let’s hear your side of the story Jason. Obviously Andrew is anti WPG, but so are many (most?) Wasatch backcountry skiers (myself included), but I’d like to hear your perspective on the day.
Jason,
Your comment wasn’t moderated, so why not post up your side of the story.
Why the reluctance?
Let’s hear it Jason.
Having the aid of a chopper (and the the ability to go practically anywhere); how was it that you and your guides HAD to ski right through a party of ski-tourers? Are the WPG guides really that bad at finding good snow that they have to poach in populated spots (by which I mean spots day-tourers can reach). I would think that with WPG’s huge operating area and a helicopter, you could probably get away from the crowds! I’d also like to hear if you feel like you got your money’s worth paying to share the slopes with so many other people? Or is having to share what you’re really on about?
“Brian”, “Jason” and “Mike”. Yeah, these guys are real.
Always avoid ‘banging your head against the wall”, if you ski in the central Wasatch mid-winter, you will be competing with hordes of snow riders. I just avoid areas like Cardiff and Days until much later in the season. Hey, I’ve been skiing Utah backcountry since 1985 and catch attitude from BC skiers like, how dare you be here. So for all who noid on my presence, I’ll go anywhere I want, whenever I want! WPGs will only bum you out if you let them. I did some of the best skiing of year yesterday and didn’t see one helicopter. Be a little creative where you go!
Violations like this need to be documented and submitted to the USFS, then followed up often for word of “Action taken”. If the USFS is dismissing legitimate violations, stay on their ass and work your way up the chain of command until you get someone who cares enough to do something.
Fingers are indecipherable from a distance. Instead I’d opt for this:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bkFIPLIOGL8/R-msSSWOwRI/AAAAAAAAK3w/0F9jTBh9zog/s400/FOREARM.jpg
Or a bare ass moon like Wasatch Surf.
Apologies for the delay in getting back, the thread was stopped at “ron” the last time I checked. No reluctance to post on my part.
I’ll start by saying that there is definitely a better way to share the terrain. But I’m against putting out incorrect information to support your case. And I can only speak for my group of 8, but that seems fair since we were the ones Andrew photographed. So…
1) WPG tried landing us in less occupied drainages before we came over to Cardiff. The wind conditions were unsafe on those ridgelines, and if Cardiff had been unsafe, they were about to pull the plug on the whole day. Cardiff had one of the few safe landing ridgelines, so we did several runs from the same landing site.
2) Regarding the first photo, that was at least the fourth time the helicopter landed at that particular site. Andrew and friend were not present the earlier times. So it’s not accurate to paint the picture that we just landed near them out of the blue. They were approaching an actively used landing site.
3) Again, regarding the first photo, we traversed well past Andrew and friend before heading downhill. So it’s inaccurate to suggest that we skied down a slope that they were eyeing up.
4) Regarding the third photo, the ski tracks were there well before the skin tracks. You show the photo like a hoard of skiers went right through a touring party. That’s not accurate. In fact, our group came near two touring parties all day, Andrew and friend being one of them. The second group was much lower in a drainage. Our view was partially obstructed until we were near the second group. We would have steered farther away from them had we seen them earlier. And it was the sort of scenario that could just as easily happened if we were another touring group rather than a heli group.
5) Regarding Andrew’s characterization of our group, we knew exactly what was going on… that we were getting a firsthand view of the Wasatch culture clash. Andrew’s friend tried to aggressively bait a few member of our group and came away with a few twistable quotes. (Incidentally, we knew exactly who are guide was… and the “way too small” comment was said with sarcasm.) People might want to rethink the notion that belligerent encounters like that will change things. WPG really didn’t end up looking bad and Andrew’s friend looked like an angry jerk.
As I mentioned earlier, there is certainly room for improvement in sharing the terrain, but just fanning the flames with bad information is not the way to get it done. It just generates comments like “I wonder if kite lines would bring down a chopper” (Really, Sam?)
There are more productive ways to effect change. For example, could someone post a link to where WPG gives their daily flight updates? If you have characterized things accurately, with WPG giving an unchanging blanket statement, that would bother me and my group (which included 3 skiers who tour regularly). But I’d like to see the blog myself before any discussion with WPG.
@Paddy: I think I hit most of your questions except… I do think I got my money’s worth. I had an awesome day skiing some great snow all day with seven friends. It was a unique experience for me, and I didn’t mind sharing at all. In an overcrowded world, I think we’ve all got to learn to share better.
Well, as this blog or whatever it is clearly caters to those who tour regularly this is probably falling on deaf ears. I too was one of the “clueless” WPG skiers photographed (right side just half in and out of the picture) and my recollection of the events differs greatly from the author of this blog. On the slope my group of 4 skiers was initially confronted by two guys as we traversed out of the line they had clearly just come up. They said something to the guide, then they went on to insult our guide, our party, our skiing ability, my manhood, my mom, dog and whatever else their 3rd grade minds could think of. This was not some well thought out and amicable speech made by a mountain guru to some rude assholes skiing his line. This was a rant from an insecure bitter guy with something to prove. As our guide and ourselves listened to this guy go off and insult us I made a sarcastic comment “Yeah, these mountains really aren’t big enough for all of us to ski, you fucking douche bag”. I admit the swearing only sunk to their level so I apologize,, however I was just so angry from being insulted and shocked that someone could not be enjoying themselves that I snapped.
We didn’t ski anyone’s slope as Jason said. We ran into another group coming up a drainage as we came down. The guides saw this and WPG stopped taking us up that slope. They flew us over to somewhere clearly devoid of touring.
I’ve skied for 20 years and don’t tour, I don’t want to tour, I’ve skied millions and millions of vertical feet by getting up a by a lift or post holing up some slope somewhere. This was an interesting insight into a culture clash I was totally unaware of, however these petty little gripes are nothing new to the sports I do other than skiing. From the “bolt choppers” of the traditional vs. sport climbing clash, to the fixed gear hipsters vs. the rest of the biking world, snowmobilers vs. x-country skiers; this clash of egos gets very very old. I don’t get pissed off when someone wants to climb my route, I don’t get angry when someone is riding on my trail. I just don’t understand how people who live in one of the biggest cities in the US can think that by driving 20 minutes then skinning up a slope for 40 minutes will put them in the most serene of wilderness settings. If you really wanted this you have to go somewhere else right? Montana, Idaho, Canada are better places to get lost than an 15 miles from Salt Lake City. Don’t get angry when someone wants to share (in a reasonably responsible way) something you are passionate about when you live with 2 million other people.
I agree with Jason, totally worth the money (yes its ridiculously expensive), I wouldn’t hesitate to do it again. I had a fun time feeling like an 11 year old playing in the snow. Sorry that some people take this WAY to seriously and can’t share like big kids.
Funny thing about that particular Tuesday…we skied West Bowl all morning (delayed start due to canyon control work) unincumbered. Then hit Oingo and headed over to Holy Toledo at 4pm. We couldn’t believe that HT hadn’t been touched by 4pm on a bluebird powderbird day. What was more bizzarre, was the fact that our party didn’t get to Silver until about 11pm and it too was untouched. The entire assault was concentrated on Cardiff then Main-Days all day long. Sounds like the newer guides need to enter a sensitivity training class or be required to pass a Backcountry 101 IQ test.
“I just don’t understand how people who live in one of the biggest cities in the US can think that by driving 20 minutes then skinning up a slope for 40 minutes will put them in the most serene of wilderness settings.” -Sol
Well that seals the deal for me.
“I just don’t understand how people who live in one of the biggest cities in the US can think that by driving 20 minutes then skinning up a slope for 40 minutes will put them in the most serene of wilderness settings.” -Sol
Easy, Timpanogos.
20 minute drive, after 40 minutes of skinning you ARE in designated wilderness. No controversy, no white asses hanging out of gore-tex, no angry skiers yelling and cussing into the air, no douchebag quides, no heli giving you a haircut………….better terrain.
In a word, wilderness.
I agree with Sol and Jason though.
Life is too short to be so angry when you should be having a good time. I got all wrapped up in the “heli hate” for a while. I think it’s socially required to some extent if you ski tour here. But yelling obscenities and acting like a 13 year old kid when the heli is around just doesn’t seem like a reasonable approach for people who are clearly passionate about the issue.
I agree Derek, and thank god Timp is a wilderness area. My gripe with WPG are their nebulous flight plans, especially when they state they might be skiing Cascade and you discover they are in fact skiing south of Provo Peak on Corral Mountain. I’d like to how they could be so geographically challenged in their descriptions and exactly what terrain is within their USFS permit. Yes, there is plenty of terrain to go around, but I’d like to see more honesty and accountability from WPG so I can plan my tours accordingly. I’ll have my wilderness experience and they can provide the same for their customers.
I agree Jim, their blanket statements about where they will be flying that day are a lame excuse to basically say “We will fly wherever the hell we want today”.
From their point of view, I can see where having more options would keep them more viable, providing a better service for their clients.
Honestly, this argument has grown so tiresome with the constant vitriol by both parties. And I also think the intense hatred has turned off a lot of folks who might otherwise be helpful in the argument against the heli.
From a ski touring perspective, the only thing that silence and submission guarantees is more noise and destruction from the helicopters.
Andrew,
I agree, but how it is approached needs to be changed. If touring parties continue to drop trow, flip the bird, and verbally assault the WPG clientele, how is that going to better the situation?
To me, it’s just makes us out to be a bunch of foolish assholes.
“From a ski touring perspective, the only thing that silence and submission guarantees is more noise and destruction from the helicopters.”
Exactly. It doesn’t matter what you’re up to. You might be driving in traffic, fishing on a busy river, or trying to get a better view at a Phish concert. If someone flips you off and swears at you, you can look down at them and completely dismiss them as belligerent, rude, 3rd grade, whatever. Or, you could recognize that something you have done has been offensive or harmful to someone else in some way, regardless of whether or not you think it should. This alone is worth mulling over much more than who was mature vs who was not.
True Derek. We are self-powered, self-righteous ones at that. And as a user group, that attitude, trash-talk and behavior brings out the worst on both sides, alienates the swing voters, and won’t change policy.
There are more issues than WPG.
So Andrew, I’m not suggesting silence or submission; just better communication and transparency from WPG and USFS. Yes, we need to stand our ground. But like Gandhi or Hayduke?
WPG would land on Gandhi like a house falling on the Wicked Witch of the West. The clients would be tripping on his sandals as they jumped out for another run. ;)