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	<title>Comments on: Arches and Avalanches</title>
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	<link>http://straightchuter.com/2010/02/arches-and-avalanches/</link>
	<description>Backcountry Skiing &#38; Beyond by Andrew McLean</description>
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		<title>By: CookieMonster</title>
		<link>http://straightchuter.com/2010/02/arches-and-avalanches/comment-page-1/#comment-4528</link>
		<dc:creator>CookieMonster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://straightchuter.com/?p=3845#comment-4528</guid>
		<description>I was just being a picky dillweed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just being a picky dillweed.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://straightchuter.com/2010/02/arches-and-avalanches/comment-page-1/#comment-4517</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://straightchuter.com/?p=3845#comment-4517</guid>
		<description>Hi Cookie Monster - I have no doubt that I may not have gotten the exact scientific terms correct, but in general, this is how I think of collapsing valleys and why I choose to avoid them in certain conditions, which ultimately helps keep me a bit safer.  If there is collapsing and I&#039;m looking at a narrow valley, I&#039;ll avoid it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Cookie Monster &#8211; I have no doubt that I may not have gotten the exact scientific terms correct, but in general, this is how I think of collapsing valleys and why I choose to avoid them in certain conditions, which ultimately helps keep me a bit safer.  If there is collapsing and I&#8217;m looking at a narrow valley, I&#8217;ll avoid it.</p>
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		<title>By: brian harder</title>
		<link>http://straightchuter.com/2010/02/arches-and-avalanches/comment-page-1/#comment-4515</link>
		<dc:creator>brian harder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://straightchuter.com/?p=3845#comment-4515</guid>
		<description>The previous comment on avalanche science....not so much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The previous comment on avalanche science&#8230;.not so much.</p>
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		<title>By: brian harder</title>
		<link>http://straightchuter.com/2010/02/arches-and-avalanches/comment-page-1/#comment-4514</link>
		<dc:creator>brian harder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://straightchuter.com/?p=3845#comment-4514</guid>
		<description>The &quot;WTF!&quot; uttered by the little dude had me laughing out loud!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;WTF!&#8221; uttered by the little dude had me laughing out loud!!</p>
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		<title>By: CookieMonster</title>
		<link>http://straightchuter.com/2010/02/arches-and-avalanches/comment-page-1/#comment-4448</link>
		<dc:creator>CookieMonster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://straightchuter.com/?p=3845#comment-4448</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting post, but your model of avalanche formation is not correct.

Remote triggering usually involves thick layers of the persistent forms, or widespread weaknesses in storm snow such as heavier layers over lighter layers. When the weak layer collapses, the downward motion of the snow above the weak layer provides energy to drive fracture propagation. Imagine if you stepped on the top of the arch and the lowest blocks were suddently crushed by the extra weight? What would happen to the upper blocks? 

The weak layer collapse, along with the subsequent propagation of the disturbance, causes a type of material failure referred to as delamination. The collapse breaks the intercrystalline bonds between the slab and the weak layer, leaving the upper slab &quot;bonded&quot; to the slope by static friction alone. If the slope is steep enough, gravity is able to overcome static friction and pull the slab, which results in the slab being torn away from its margins. The slab breaks apart as it moves downhill.

Read this paper:

http://www.issw2008.com/papers/P__8212.pdf

You&#039;re probably familiar with firn quakes. The model of avalanche formation you attempt to describe is basically the same as a firn quake.

Firn Quakes

http://traverse.npolar.no/expedition-diary/archive/2007/12/21/firn-quake</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting post, but your model of avalanche formation is not correct.</p>
<p>Remote triggering usually involves thick layers of the persistent forms, or widespread weaknesses in storm snow such as heavier layers over lighter layers. When the weak layer collapses, the downward motion of the snow above the weak layer provides energy to drive fracture propagation. Imagine if you stepped on the top of the arch and the lowest blocks were suddently crushed by the extra weight? What would happen to the upper blocks? </p>
<p>The weak layer collapse, along with the subsequent propagation of the disturbance, causes a type of material failure referred to as delamination. The collapse breaks the intercrystalline bonds between the slab and the weak layer, leaving the upper slab &#8220;bonded&#8221; to the slope by static friction alone. If the slope is steep enough, gravity is able to overcome static friction and pull the slab, which results in the slab being torn away from its margins. The slab breaks apart as it moves downhill.</p>
<p>Read this paper:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.issw2008.com/papers/P__8212.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.issw2008.com/papers/P__8212.pdf</a></p>
<p>You&#8217;re probably familiar with firn quakes. The model of avalanche formation you attempt to describe is basically the same as a firn quake.</p>
<p>Firn Quakes</p>
<p><a href="http://traverse.npolar.no/expedition-diary/archive/2007/12/21/firn-quake" rel="nofollow">http://traverse.npolar.no/expedition-diary/archive/2007/12/21/firn-quake</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://straightchuter.com/2010/02/arches-and-avalanches/comment-page-1/#comment-4442</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://straightchuter.com/?p=3845#comment-4442</guid>
		<description>Hopefully nobody was too offended as it was done in jest mainly to see if anyone from CO would even see it.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully nobody was too offended as it was done in jest mainly to see if anyone from CO would even see it.  ;)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jordan</title>
		<link>http://straightchuter.com/2010/02/arches-and-avalanches/comment-page-1/#comment-4438</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 03:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://straightchuter.com/?p=3845#comment-4438</guid>
		<description>Low blow for Colorado.  Utah is winning the avalanche fatalities this year though.  3 to 1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Low blow for Colorado.  Utah is winning the avalanche fatalities this year though.  3 to 1.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://straightchuter.com/2010/02/arches-and-avalanches/comment-page-1/#comment-4390</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://straightchuter.com/?p=3845#comment-4390</guid>
		<description>Hi Rich - glad to hear it was useful.  I&#039;d be happy to send you PowerPoint versions of those sketches if you need them for future presentations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rich &#8211; glad to hear it was useful.  I&#8217;d be happy to send you PowerPoint versions of those sketches if you need them for future presentations.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Meyer</title>
		<link>http://straightchuter.com/2010/02/arches-and-avalanches/comment-page-1/#comment-4389</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://straightchuter.com/?p=3845#comment-4389</guid>
		<description>Andrew,
Thanks for the sketch....  I made use of your idea while trying to explain how a slope needs and is benefited by having support...  (and what might happen if it is removed..)  Teaching level I avy courses in Shasta and Tahoe... Now I need to work on my drawing skills a bit.  
Thx again, Rich</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew,<br />
Thanks for the sketch&#8230;.  I made use of your idea while trying to explain how a slope needs and is benefited by having support&#8230;  (and what might happen if it is removed..)  Teaching level I avy courses in Shasta and Tahoe&#8230; Now I need to work on my drawing skills a bit.<br />
Thx again, Rich</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: drew</title>
		<link>http://straightchuter.com/2010/02/arches-and-avalanches/comment-page-1/#comment-4369</link>
		<dc:creator>drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://straightchuter.com/?p=3845#comment-4369</guid>
		<description>nice drawings.  you should do some more and show them in a gallery, er maybe a coffee shop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice drawings.  you should do some more and show them in a gallery, er maybe a coffee shop.</p>
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